How to Read, Understand, and Apply the Scriptures with Elizabeth Groves
On today’s episode of the Journeywomen podcast we’re doing a deep dive into one passage of Scripture to continue honing our hermeneutical skillset, by reading, studying, and applying a challenging passage together. Elizabeth Groves, known as “Libbie”, is lecturer in biblical Hebrew at Westminster Theological Seminary. Her academic interests include Hebrew and Old Testament exegesis, as well as counseling those who have gone through the loss of a husband or wife.
Elizabeth “Libbie” Groves loves teaching Hebrew at Westminster Seminary and English as a Second Language at her church. She has four grown and married children, spread across the Northeast, and is expecting her eighth grandchild. Her husband Al passed away in 2007 from melanoma, and Libbie had the opportunity to write about that experience in her book Grief Undone: A Journey with God and Cancer and in a mini-book entitled Becoming a Widow: The Ache of Missing Your Other Half, both from New Growth Press. She treasures visiting family, and if she had any free time, she would spend it reading or watching movies.
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS
Can you tell us a little about who you are and what you do?
Today we’re discussing what it looks like to apply hermeneutical principles to a specific text. What does that mean?
Is there a specific text you think might be helpful for us to put this into practice?
How does looking at a clearer text help us interpret a less clear text?
What other passages might we look at to better understand Ezra 9-10?
How does looking at where the passage sits in the unfolding of redemptive history make a difference on how we understand and apply it to our lives?
How does Ezra 9-10 fit into the big story of the Bible?
How does this specific passage point us to Jesus?
How does the coming of Jesus shape our understanding of the passage?
How does the passage apply to us as we are in him?
NOTEWORTHY QUOTES
“The Bible is about God. God wrote it so that we could know him. He is almost shameless in his willingness to be known by his people. The Bible is first and foremost about him. This sounds obvious, but we don’t always approach it that way.”
“We can sometimes come to the Bible in our little box. What does God want for me? What does God want me to do? Jesus died for me. All of which is absolutely true. There’s nothing wrong in that, but if that’s our whole focus - we think “the Bible is a book about God and me” - we can miss some very important stuff and miss that the Bible is about God, and our role is to celebrate him, to praise and worship him, to obey him, to serve him, to be a part of bringing his kingdom to earth.”
“If you come with the assumption that God is the creator, he is the ruler of the universe, he is the king on the throne, he is worthy of absolute obedience, even if he were malicious, just his power alone would make him worthy of being obeyed. But he is good, he is kind, he is all those things, and so my calling is not to have him make me happy, it is to serve him and be wholeheartedly his.”
“Especially with the Old Testament, you don’t want to jump to an immediate direct application from that text to your life.”
“Compare the text you’re reading with others that talk about the same topic. Whatever text you’re reading is part of a whole Bible. It’s not an isolated piece. Allow the clearer texts to help you interpret the less clear texts.”
“If you have a concordance, you can look in the concordance for passages related to the topic you are reading about. If you don’t find much, when you want to find texts on a given topic, think of all the words that could be related words. For example with ‘marriage’ you can look for the word ‘union,’ or ‘united.’ For ‘divorce’ you can look for ‘sending away,’ or ‘putting away.’ Then you can find texts that might not contain the word ‘marriage’ or ‘divorce’ but are talking about that same topic.”
“Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7. We then put these texts side by side next to our text at the end of Ezra…”
“Especially if you’re reading something in the Old Testament, see where this text sits within the unfolding story of God’s interactions with his people, or redemptive history.”
“History of redemption, we have creation, the fall, and everything else is redemption, heading for glory at the end.”
“Marriage and divorce is not what this text is about. What this text is about is wholehearted obedience and devotion to the Lord and recognizing if there is something that is pulling you away from him, get rid of it. That is the thrust of the text. So if you're going to apply it, apply that.”
“‘What does this show us about God?’ That’s a fair question to ask about any text in the Bible.”
“One thing we carry out of Ezra 9 is, Wow. God is holy. He is mighty. He is the ruler. He is worthy of all obedience, unquestioning obedience. But what’s neat is when you go back and read some of the other texts we’ve seen - ‘don’t intermarry and here is why’ - you see that that command was actually driven by God’s desire to be in relationship with his people, and he doesn’t want them drawn away, which puts a whole different light on it.”
“The Lord rejoices over his people as his treasured possession. He dwells with them. He protects them, he is a warrior on their behalf. He doesn’t sleep, he is always watching over them.”
“From the beginning of God choosing Abraham to have this exclusive relationship, the eventual purpose was always so that he could bless all the nations through him.”
“Everything in the whole Bible points to Jesus.”
“Jesus is the faithful Israelite who lived wholeheartedly, loving and serving God his Father, did not give his heart to anything else or turn away at any moment. This is a contrast from what we see in Ezra 9-10.”
“Jesus was a priest, he did and does represent us before the Father as a human. He offered the ultimate sacrifice of himself and he prays for us even now. We know that he is even in this moment interceding for us on our behalf as a priest does… When Jesus intercedes for us, it’s on the basis of him having already paid the price for that sin.”
“In Ezra, the whole point of this passage is that Israel is to remain separate. But in Jesus, because of everything he did, which was always the plan from the beginning. Now the invitation to that relationship with God is thrown wide open to the Gentiles as well. That promise that God originally made to Abraham - ‘in you all the nations of the earth will be blessed’ - now actually finds its fulfillment in Jesus. Now everybody, all nations, all tongues are invited to come into that relationship.”
“We tend to be committed to our own happiness as our highest allegiance and that is absolutely not okay.”
“You don’t want to tolerate anything that is going to pull you away from God.”
“God is the same God, he still wants our hearts, all of our hearts. He is still worthy of all of our hearts. He is still the holy God ruling on the throne of the universe, mighty beyond anything we will remotely understand until we see him face to face. He is also the God who is still infinitely good and compassionate. He is the God who still wants that relationship with his people. None of that has changed. If Israel was blessed to be in relationship with that God, how much more are we who have God’s very own Spirit dwelling in our hearts?”
“Draw the timeline of redemptive history: creation, fall, redemption, restoration. As you read through the Bible, see where what you're reading fits on the timeline.”
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
How does looking at a clearer text help us interpret a less clear text?
How does looking at where the passage sits in the unfolding of redemptive history make a difference on how we understand and apply it to our lives?
Why is it important to understand where a specific passage sits in the big story of the Bible?
How do we see Jesus in each passage of Scripture? How does his coming and our state of being in him shape our understanding of the passage?
What are you going to do or implement as a result of what you’ve learned this week?
IMPORTANT NOTE
Journeywomen interviews are intended to serve as a springboard for continued study in the context of your local church. While we carefully select guests each week, interviews do not imply Journeywomen's endorsement of all writings and positions of the interviewee or any other resources mentioned.
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