03. Theology for Everyday Ministry with Jen Wilkin and JT English
03. Theology for Everyday Ministry with Jen Wilkin and JT English
Today we’re talking to Jen Wilkin and JT English about how our theology—or our understanding of God—influences our everyday life and ministry. If you don’t know them, Jen is an author and Bible teacher who is passionate about seeing others become committed followers of Christ who are grounded in the Word of God. JT English is the Lead Pastor at Storyline Church, the author of several books, and co-founder of Training the Church. Jen and JT are two of the co-hosts on the Knowing Faith podcast, and they are also now co-authors of the new book You Are a Theologian: An Invitation to Know and Love God Well. This conversation is rich, approachable, and full of insights that will meet you wherever you are today!
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS
As believers, how are we all involved in ministry work (even if it’s unpaid and informal)?
Why does our theology matter? How does it shape us?
If theology is meant to be the work of the Christian, how can we contribute to the conversation about God? How do we “do theology”?
How is all of life about theology? Does our knowledge and love for God fuel our desire and efforts to teach the next generation? How does theology fuel our ministry work, especially when we’re feeling weary?
If we’re feeling weary, how does theology offer us rest?
How might our weariness, fatigue, or ministry discouragement relate to our doctrine of God?
How does theology renew our minds for the purpose of heart transformation? How do doctrine and devotion fuel each other? What is happening when my theology stays in my head and doesn’t really connect with my heart?
Some of our listeners are working women, some are stay at home moms, many are in vocational ministry of some sort, and I’m sure most of them lead busy lives, just like us. When can we do theology? With whom are we meant to engage in this work?
What encouragement do you have for listeners who want to be further along in their understanding of who God is, but who feel limited by the demands of their current season?
What are some grounding doctrines that comfort and encourage you (personally) when you grow weary in doing good?
What Scripture passages encourage you in ministry? What’s a particular verse you cling to as you minister to others?
NOTES & QUOTES
“Ephesians talks about how the role of a local church and the role of ministry leaders isn't to have one person doing ministry for the body, but the whole body doing ministry together.” - JT
“How can the local church become not just a place for ministry leaders to do ministry by themselves, but to train up others to do ministry with us?” - JT
“What the prophets had—and you can tell from the prophecies that they spoke—was a vision of God high and lifted up that was bigger than the work, and the reference point was so compelling that the work was obvious in its necessity.” - Jen
“You get to a place where you can grow forgetful that God actually cares more about his church than you do, that God actually cares more about the gospel going forth or people being trained than you do. And I think that what theology does is it keeps us oriented not just to who God is, but to who we are in our role in the mission.” - Jen
“God is for you, he's for his church, and he's ultimately the one pushing ministry forward. You're an instrument, and so he doesn't want to use you as an instrument that gets worn out and weary.” - JT
Lauren: “I hope you really heard what JT said a few minutes ago. He said “God is for you. He is for his church, and he is ultimately the one pushing ministry forward. You are an instrument.” If you’ve ever played an instrument, you know that it takes years of hard work, lots of dedication, and grueling hours of practice to master it and to create something beautiful. But if you think about it, who is the one doing all that work? It’s the one who is wielding the instrument. To continue the metaphor, the Lord is the one who is playing the keys, strumming the strings, wielding the tool—however you want to put it—we are just the tool! We lean into our function, yes, we work hard, yes, but we can rest knowing that He is doing the work through us. Psalm 127:1 says “Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.” So many of us are on the edge of burnout because we are striving in vain, spinning our wheels of self-sufficiency as we go about our work. So many of us feel weary in the work the Lord has set before us—whether it’s vocational ministry, the daily grind of our jobs, or the work of everyday discipleship in our home. So what is the solution? It’s simple—and it takes all the weight off of our own shoulders and puts it on the One who can actually bear it. Look to Christ. Look to the One who promises an easy yoke and a light burden (Matt. 11:30). Look to the One who too has been weary and who has rested from toil. Look to the One who has said “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls” (Matt. 11:28-29).”
“Weariness is not something that is unique to the 2023 evangelical. There's a weariness that comes with all kinds of ministry and all kinds of work. And [we have] to remember that God is our rest.” - JT
“For us to think that we can do ministry without rest, without a vision of God high and lifted up, then there is going to be a weariness that isn't like a spiritual weariness, but is a broken weariness. And that's not the kind of weariness that we're supposed to experience in ministry.” - JT
“Our rest doesn't just come from not working hard. Our rest comes from being in Christ, him knowing our frame, and giving us his Spirit to continue moving forward.” - JT
“The church means that you're not doing this all on your own, and you don't have to live life as the first Christian.” - Jen
“Ministry is not the food. God is. And sometimes we can make ministry the food. We can make it the thing that we think is going to sustain us, or we can think it's the thing that's going to keep us going. Going to the next home group, preaching the next sermon, teaching in an Institute, going to evangelize, or hosting… Those are all great, but we're doing that from an overflow and out of an abundance of the feast that we've already had, which is the nature and character of God.” - JT
“Theology is enjoying God above everything else. It's saying that he is our highest good, our highest treasure. He is what satisfies, sustains, and perseveres us. And so, we do ministry from that overflow of the feast that we've had, not believing that ministry is going to be the feast that we're going to.” - JT
“Theology should fuel worship, and worship should fuel more theology. These are two sides of the same coin that have a reciprocal relationship that are the engine and the fuel of the Christian life.” - JT
“I've never learned something about God that wasn't lovely. I've never learned something about God that wasn't beautiful, and that wasn't right and good. And those are the things that are meant to fuel a love or a devotion towards God.” - JT
“When you're looking to get to know someone because you find them worthy of affection, then affection is going to flow from the knowledge.” - Jen
“Learning about God is devotional for me. Devotion [can’t be] separated from learning. I think you need to be drawing on past learning—that's what you're doing in that devotional time. It ought not to be just to make me feel a particular way.” - Jen
“There's never a time you're not doing [theology]. This isn't just filling out a Bible study curriculum or reading your book or doing a devotional. That's theology too. But one of the things that Jen and I are trying to help people see is that you're never not doing it. You're never ever not doing theology. So learning is part of the theological task but also living is part of the theological task. It's the practical outworking.” - JT
“Theology is the umbrella that governs every single thing that we think about and every single thing that we do.” - JT
“Theology is not meant to be alone. It's meant to be done in community.” - Jen
Lauren: “Earlier JT said “Theology is the umbrella that governs every single thing that we think about and every single thing that we do.” This means that our spiritual lives are not compartmentalized from our physical lives. “I think—especially for those of us who long to do “all the right things” in our walk with God—that this should take some of the pressure off of our shoulders. For the woman who’s in a season where 30 minute “quiet times” just aren’t possible, you are still “doing theology” by answering your kid’s tough questions about life and God. For the woman who doesn’t have the margin to lead a women’s Bible study, you are still doing the very worthwhile work of ministry when you invite that college girl over for tea and conversation. Maybe the rest you’re looking for can come by realizing that your theology is already integrated into your life…Our learning is married to our living. Our theology isn’t just in our heads; it’s in our hearts and our hands. Our understanding of God comes out in how we engage our neighbors and how we speak to our children. It’s in how we approach our studies and our work and our families. Our understanding of God impacts everything—it isn’t compartmentalized! One way we can live that out is, as Jen mentioned, to “do theology” together. I’d encourage you to take the next few seconds to reflect on who you could reach out to to “do theology” with. Now friends, this doesn’t have to be as formal as you think! Yes, it could be a formal discipleship relationship (if so, we have a great resource for that on our website!). But it also doesn’t have to be complicated. Who can you invite over to chat with while you do laundry? Who can you have over for coffee and bring into your questions about God? What older couple can you have dinner with to see how they integrate their theology with their marriage? What family can you tag along with to see how they speak to their kids? We’re doing theology every day. Let’s not overcomplicate it. And let’s do it together.”
“I think sometimes we can wait to do ministry until we're handed a platform. Don't wait for somebody to hand you a microphone to say, “Well now I can teach.” Start teaching your kids. Start having conversations with your husband. Get three or four women into your living room and just begin having conversations on this stuff, because that's where this starts.” - JT
“God is omni-competent. Therefore, I do not have to be.” - Jen
“It is deeply therapeutic to be reminded that you are not the hinge on which everything is relying.” - Jen
“Be faithful to what the Lord has called you to do and then you can take your hands off of the rest and trust that.” - Jen
“When you're reminded the Lord has given you a portion but he hasn't given you the whole thing, then you're going to have eyes for delegating in a way that you wouldn't necessarily have if you're someone in a leadership role.” - Jen
“The omnipresent, omni-competent, omniscient God dwells within me, and I often don't rely upon him. I rely upon my humanity. I rely upon my effort or my knowledge.” - JT
RESOURCES
You Are a Theologian: An Invitation to Know and Love God Well
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
What is theology? Write or share a working definition in your own words.
Why does your theology matter? How does it shape you?
As a believer, you can be engaged in ministry work, even if it’s unpaid and informal. What do you consider to be your ministry?
When you’re feeling weary, what part of God’s character offers you encouragement or rest? What Scripture passage encourages you?
What might you do or implement based on what you learned in this week’s episode?
IMPORTANT NOTE
Journeywomen interviews are intended to serve as a springboard for continued study in the context of your local church. While we carefully select guests each week, interviews do not imply Journeywomen's endorsement of all writings and positions of the interviewee or any other resources mentioned.
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