The Reality of Our Rebellion with Dr. Rebecca DeYoung
Last week, we discussed creation and the rebellion of man, and today we’re digging deeper into the reality of our rebellion with Dr. Rebecca DeYoung. Dr. DeYoung has her Ph.D. from the University of Notre Dame and she’s been teaching ethics and the history of ancient and medieval philosophy at Calvin College for over 20 years. Rebecca has extensively researched the topic of sin, and while sin and rebellion might not seem like the most encouraging topics, we hope you’ll see in this conversation that as we grow in awareness of our brokenness, we only grow in our recognition and awe of God’s grace to us despite our sin! We pray that as you listen to this conversation you come to a deeper understanding of what God has rescued us from.
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS
How might better understanding our sin be a help to us and spur us on towards Christlikeness?
What is sin? Where did sin come from/originate?
What is the punishment for sin?
How can we discern what patterns of thought or rhythms of desire we’ve fallen into that are thwarting the good life God intends for us?
We know that God, by the power of the Holy Spirit, empowers us to become new people, but that our identity in Christ is both “now” and “not yet.” Our new selves are created, but not yet mature and perfected. How do we grow into our new identity in Christ? What is this process called?
Is it possible to find restoration and freedom? How can we move forward into new practices and a new way of life? How has Christ paid the penalty for our sins?
How is God working for us, and with us, and in us as we fight our sin?
What daily rhythms of discipleship or “graced disciplines” (as you call them) bridge a life held captive to sin and a life that shines with Christlikeness?
We’ve talked a lot about sin today, but sin should never be the first or last word about us. What does the Christian life begin and end with? Why is it important to bear that in mind as we fight our sin and as we think about ourselves?
How does remembering how much God loved us, even in our sin, change the way we move towards those around us in love?
NOTEWORTHY QUOTES
“You don’t go to the Great Physician for some kind of shame and blame story of how bad you are, you’re going to the Doctor and he’s offering you healing.”
“When we have a sense of our own struggle and the fact that we’re not able to figure this out on our own, we’re not able to disentangle ourselves, we need some help, you go to the physician of souls and you find a regimen that gives you healing and ultimately makes you whole. What’s great about that frame, is that it's a frame of love. You’re going to someone who wants you to be well.”
“Vices are more than a single act of sin, but they’re not your generic human nature that's fallen overall. They’re in this middle ground of patterns in our character, and the trouble with that is that it is a well-worn groove and it’s very hard to get ourselves back out of it.”
“Sin is also a self-destructive folly-following way of life.”
“The picture you get in Biblical wisdom literature is that one of the problems with sin is that you’re choosing to destroy yourself. You’re choosing a way of life where you are seeking fulfillment in a place where it’s impossible to find it. There’s something self-frustrating about this way. So the way the ancient tradition thinks about this is, ‘well let’s turn away from this self-destruction and to turn towards a more life-giving way.’”
“The Scriptures offer us a picture of sin as self-defeating and self-destructive.”
“The vices are offering us false promises, glittery substitutes, for happiness and the blessed life that God calls us to. We’re going after what looks like the good life to us, what looks like it will make us happy, and we get caught up in our own sort of deceptive program.”
“You have to be so so so careful to leave room for grace here. The old self is characterized by vices, the Christlike self we’re growing into yet is full of Christlike virtues - it’s his character. But what's the bridge between the two?… I think spiritual disciples play that role.”
“The [spiritual] disciplines aren’t practicing to become virtuous. What they are is opening your hands and opening your heart.”
“It’s not that you're making no progress, it’s that there’s always another layer to uncover. To put it positively, there’s always room to grow.”
“God knows what he’s doing. There are stages and seasons to this. He's going to dig down to a certain level, a level perhaps that you can handle at the time, and then once you get comfortable with him being there, he’s going to dig down to the next level, and then the next level, until he’s got all of you. He’s got your whole heart.”
“Start way smaller than you think you need to. This kicks ambition out of the process. This is not an ambitious New-Years’-resolution-type project. This is a ‘what are daily ways I can encounter God?’ Something very small. It’s really just practicing paying attention to him, it’s being a little bit more open than you were yesterday.”
“The [spiritual] disciplines are not a new dutiful to-do list to make you a better Christian.”
“Your job is to trust the Surgeon and to lay on the table. You have to go to the hospital and you have to agree to the procedure, but after that what happens happens, and you have to submit to that too.”
“You’re setting up a trellis, but God’s growing the vine that climbs up the trellis...You're not the one who gives growth and life, you just set up the trellis, so that there’s a scaffold, available for that plant to really climb and grow and flourish.”
“Intentionality is important, being reflective about your life is important, but also there’s this really hands-off letting go aspect of submitting to the surgeon or letting the gardener grow what he wants to grow.”
“I need Christ so badly and he’s there for me. Can you believe it?”
“I had always come at life from the idea that I had to earn people's approval. And this idea that God just hands it to you. He’s already there, he’s going to love you into a better you, rather than finding you worthless and trying to do this massive rehab program on you.”
“The more deeply that you see your sinfulness, the more gracious and amazing the love of God is revealed to you.”
“As he allows you to go deeper, he also allows you to see the heights of his love for you.”
“If you give people grace and compassion as fellow strugglers, that’s probably the most important step you can take towards enabling them to open their own lives.”
“I think all the vices are rooted in some sense of inadequacy. Either ‘I don’t feel like I’m enough’ or ‘I don’t feel like the thing I’m grasping for is enough’ or ‘I don’t feel like other people are going to love me enough.’ If there's any M.O. for the vices it’s ‘not enough.’ It’s a desperate attempt to overcompensate.”
“The real question I want you to ask is ‘why are you so angry about this? What are you guarding?’ and i think that is such a telling question in all of the vices. What picture of yourself, what picture of the good life are you guarding? What do you feel like is being threatened here? What do you feel like you care about that you’re worried you won’t get enough of? Why can’t you trust God with that? Why do you feel threatened about that? And I think this is a way into not only understanding ourselves better, but also understanding other people better. It’s a way of compassion to say we’re all struggling for a reason because we're all dealing with a not-enough kind of approach to life.”
“We can offer a Savior who will meet their needs and we can model how to trust him and not rely on our own power so much.”
“In some respects, the best way to be like Jesus is to be with him, to spend more time with him.”
HYMN
RESOURCES
Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies, by Dr. Rebecca DeYoung
SCRIPTURE REFERENCES
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
How might better understanding your sin be a help to you and spur you on towards Christlikeness?
Are there patterns of thought or rhythms of desire you’ve fallen into that are thwarting the good life God intends for you?
How does Christ having paid the penalty for your sin change how you now live and fight your sin?
How does remembering how much God loved you, even in your sin, change how you move towards and engage those around you in love?
What are you going to do or implement as a result of what you’ve learned this week?
IMPORTANT NOTE
Journeywomen interviews are intended to serve as a springboard for continued study in the context of your local church. While we carefully select guests each week, interviews do not imply Journeywomen's endorsement of all writings and positions of the interviewee or any other resources mentioned.
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